lou: it's time for your comments, james writes, no white house press briefg in the last 15 day carney must be having his tap dancing shoes repaired. >> andhat is it for us, good night from new. neil: the casino magnet takes no prisoner,onight, fallout from a mogul who said he had enough. welcome i am neil cavuto, steve wynn is never one to hold up, but i don't think this casin king pin gambled on the response he got from this on a nevada political program, wynn erupts on president obama. >> i'll be damned if i want him to lecture me aut small business and jobs. i'm a job creator, guys like me

are job creators, we don like having a bulls -- we don't like having a bullseye painted on our back. i created about 250,000 direct and indirect jobs accords to state of nevada, that is one of the numbers 2 50,000, that is 250,000 more than this president. neil: he is just warming up. >> president tried to put himself between me and my employees with class warfare, by calling a group that makes money billionaires and millionaires who don't pay there are share, gave 120% of my salary and bonus away last year to charities, as i do most years, i can't stand the idea of being demague that is being put down by a president wh has never cated any jobs and does not understand how the economy works. neil: this is from local to viral, he is not aaone, insisting that every business guy that i know in this country

is frightened of barack obama and the way he thinks, any regular viewer of this show knows that mr. wynn is not shy. there is something morelarming to his tone now. a bad situation he thinks is getting worse, and now, very much going viral, and going way beyond the white house, wynn attacked ben bernanke, an easy monetary policy he likened to a ponzi scheme. >> we did what bernie played of went to -- made off went to jail for, federal reserve, printed money and bought bonds from government as if there was really an action and a buyer. neil: th is the world's greatest gambler calling washington's bluff, not with a poker face, but with a rid face, mad asell and he ain gonna take it any more face. this is a story of how in so doing, steve wynn might have just offended this presidential

race, and unfortunately, it is the president who could be coming up snake eyes. so was it a gamble for wynn to say ha he said? former office depot ceo insists it would have been a bigger gamble ife did not. that was my react, this is taking on a youtube sensation like of its own. -- life of its own, justifiably so? >> well, i think steve wynn is right, he has been a job creator and a terrific job would the government, a lot of people, a lot of small businesses have created jobs, and gambled with their own money if you will, without the government, yet have you government going out continuously saying we'll create mo government jobs, you know the be people are bad people are fat cats we need to tax them more and so oi don't think that this is constructive relationship, i think you see that when a go i like steve wynn -- a guy like steve wynn finally

had enough and erupts, steve wynn is a democrat he voted for barack obama and had close ties. so i think you see this as a equal opportunity, not a republican issue not a democrat issue but a frustration in the be community. neil: i think you hit the nail on the head. that it is a frustration on part of the business community, we have seen it coming out of likes of brokerage firms, ratio of almost 5 to 1 giving to mitt romney rather than guy they were drown to 4 years ago barack obama. we're seeing it evan high-tech executives, intel ceo saying that policies don't help us, so this seems to be spreading like like a wildfire, but mr. wynn's comes so north worthy he was not raid to go out on the limb and be so publicly blunt about it, do you expect others to follow? >> it is difficult for others to do, that but privately you hear

a lot of concern nation over this -- concern nation. neil: why? >> you know be people are not popoliticians, we like to do things behind the scenes and influence government policy in a polite way. you hear this constant demagoguing of 1%, 75% of that 1% of the top taxpayerso are really small businesses that are being categorized as individuals. those people are job creors, we have this fiscal cliff coming, we have tacking raised. we have -- taxes being raised and threats more taxes on top, that is not driving confidence or job creation. and this is the issue in the frustration in the be community. the taxes regulation, and trade, all of these policies, right now areot going in the favor of job creation. neil: what do you think has turn at least the bluntness tide. in the bob woodward book, he

quotes a number of executive on the recordff record, many of whom called into the private washington powwows with the president, and left disheartened. and it is as if it is reaching a crescendo on the part of corporatemerica, not all but a increasing slies sayining sliceh is enough. >> you know most be people, are you know do what they do on their private life, some are democrats some are republicans, but when it comes to policy they try to advocate pro-growth. they are trying to run their businesses, in a very competitive environment globally, i think what we hear is aontinuation or a promise of a continuation of more of the same policies, which has made american businesses -- it put them in the backseat. we have the highest tax rates in the world. i know there are loopholes but they were created by congress, you know we're in a situation ere we're not competitive.

we're not able to bring back our earnings from overseas, where we have a situation where we're not creating jobs, we're putting the money on our balance sheets rather than investing it in the american economy. that is unheard of. we need a change in that policy from one administration or another but this needs to change. neil: steve, do you think something changed in the last week? maybe mitt romney's debate performance or the lack there of in the president's where it may have emboldened the ''s critics, and sharpened or jazzed the chalngary supporters to speak out to seize on what they think is an opportunity to make the president's one termer. >> i don't know if it is that, or not, you have a lot of supporters of the presint, steve wynn was one of them saying we need to tackle the deficits this president prom -- demagogues against a

$400 billion deficit now we have over a trillion. he was very negative on the debt put on over the previous 8 years, now we put on 6 trillion. i mean, you know we have not seen the policies that were promised. i think that issue is we want to make sure as a business community whoever is in the white house, that the promises are met, and we have an environment that is once against friendly to american j creation. neil: steve thank you very much. this is up the ante for tomorrow night, fox business will continueo cover the crucial debates, tomorrow. vice more like a bunny slope. "new york times" and saying, ronald reagan a former budget chief said, that is wrong. you should be worried if the times says that is right, david stockton here, and only here. but fst the irish calling for

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neil: we have a problem, prices set to hit recording home heating price, as gas pricing soar, people are roaring for more drilling but white house still killing on that subject. the rest of the world picks up the slack. iran willing to double its own oil product, and even ireland is looking to drill on an offshore field that contains potentially hundreds of millions of barrels. the rest of the world gets it time we start to get it ourselves. as of yet, michael, we're not. but the ireland thing fcinates me, they had to touch environmentalling who said don't

touch it and overwhelmingly, irish voters said go after it, what is going to? >> well i think it is very telling that you have a country like ireland with rolled out red carpet for producers, they have have -- lengthened lease terms and given incentives, and begged with folks to come in and look at ireland ocs, they have a find, they think it will be substantial, that is good news for them. and you know conversely we're seeing from iraq is they are say they is produce more than ieasays. we're excited to see the international sources of energy come on-line, because they can help offset the increases that we're seeing in demand from china, and from india. buinting to us here in the united states, that while the other countries are exploring aggressively, how to increase their production, we have just rolled out a new 5

year plan for offshore thrilling that shuts off east coast, delays alaska until 2017, and has least number of leases in it of any program in the history since they passed legislation to get this thing going. anat the same time the deputy is increasing royalty rates and looking at way its decrease lease terms and making it less appealing for companies to come in to to exploration and production here in the united states. neil: we're showing a lot of land that the administration has say you can't drill othere is a lo argument goes if we were to tap oil from even half of the off limit lands, we would have enough oil to tell the middle east where to get off, is that true? >> absolutely true, consumer energy alliance, released a report a couple weeks ago that

shows we could develop if we could bind field bring feels ont yourself to energy efficiency, meaning we would only need 20 to 20% from overseas, and north american energy reserves are biggest in the area, what -- when you take in canada as well, and infrastructure and keystone exxon pile line for that. neil: what happens, environmentists say, at what harm to our environment. have seen fracking and how it is done, it is remarkable, they keep it all in place, they are not turning the land upside down. they are not making a ples of it and i -- a mess of it i think there is a perception of fracking or drilling that might have been true, a few decades ago, but it is just, young now young now, is the industry making a mistake not explaining it better or environmentals not

giving it a chance. >> environmentalists are not even giving it a chance, there is no question that our environmental saved guards here in united states and canada are strongest than in the world. better in terms of offshore china or russia or anywhere element when the environment 8 ofs say we're not going to produce here. and we're going to force the country rely on imports, we're experts the environmental pollution, and making it worse overall. neil: where does this end up? if you are irend and you are looking for more oil or any one of these countries, like you said at beginning, we benefit fr that because the is more oil in the market, prices go down, so in a flip sense, would it encourage an administration, let's say this one is reelected, to keep doing what it is doing because more oil is coming on the market anyway, we could just sit on our hands and enjoy the excess supplies and probably the lower prices ?

>> well, the problem can,hat theory is that is asses is a world oil demand is going to remain constant. the truth and we'll have significant increases in the demand coming out of china, india and developing world, these new resources that are coming on line, whether in iraq or in central america or the baltic sea are going to help meet those needs. but the united states ded pand will alsdemandwill continue to d oil prices for north american crude are lower than what we see from the middle east, and so we ca help get relief at pump if we with turn on north american resources here. neil: michael thank you very much. you explained it so even i understood it. ne: speaking of which, liar liar, china on fire? a country that lied its way to the top is about to take a huge fall, thisould get nasty.

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neil: forget these guys rioting, maybe you should focus on these guying milting, on top of a super power not looking so super, for u.s. companies that do business there not very super right now, alcoa the latest on warn, not europe that is hurting them but china, a country whose growth is very much in question, an increasing labor strife is no longer in question. the world's hootest economy exposed for not being so hot at all? a case of a financial emperor that never had any clothes, gordon chang has been arguing this for years, and spells it outta left field in a -- out in

a bestseller. the coming collapse of china, gordon, to your point, alcoa is latest example, but not the last, what doou mean? >> well, first quarter, caterpillar talking about how china was not so important to itstion after sayinimportance t, it is not just alcoa and fedex there will be a number of other companies that the come out with this in following quarters, alcoa is a prime example, they blamed china because of drop off in demand for its products, there is another aspect, that is that despite the decline in demand, beijing is forcing its producers to continue putting out aluminum it wants to keep employment up that will be an overhang on supply we'll see in following quarters, that will drive prices down, that will hurt alcoa next year. neil: you know, lori, argument is that china has been the world

economic engine. been buying when everyone else has been doi nothing. let's see it was a house of cards, and it is not doing that any more, i think of our debt that could be a problem. >> absolutely. as we emerge on third quarter reporting, you mentioned alcoa, hea fromiuium yum grands but u.s. companies are liking to china to dictate when their earnings outlook will be, it used it be, i hate to say it, what corporate american environment sneezed whole world got a cold but now it is when china sneezes, there was a 10 year auction today, very well attended, but china continues to hold majority of our debt, that is a huge problem overhang on our economic growth. and i think there is a lot of spent simskepticism, it is stilm

perhaps the ref of the world that chi is cooking its books. neil: gordon woe talked about this. -- we talked about this, i think that china lies, you notice that neighbor you had, you lived in an expensive neighborhood. my point is that nghbor with all fancy cars, looks impresse and is flat broke, it is all fake. i'm not saying it is that extreme but china was never what it was cracked up on be. >> china had an economy, and growth model appropriate for post carl war years, but in -- cold war years in a global down turn it is inappropriate, they are held hostage to evens and europe and the u.s. and declining global -- >> maybe the chicken is coming home to roost, they have a billion citizens that are streaming for our stuff.

>> you know, yum brands did well, but they will have a problem in future, the problems is manufacturing, we've had1 straight months of contraction in manufacturing that will ripple into retailing, and not only top end but also mcdonald's and burger kings and the rest. that is a problem for 2013 down the road, we'll see ito through the chinese economy. >> there was a bailout while china did its own after the financial cris, and there are renewed calls for additional bailout money to keephina from experiencing a so-called hard landing, very noted economist rabiny said, it is unbelievable at this level of growth, it could have a dire outcome. neil: rabin's makes is sound sinister because his voice sounds sipster.

quickly, one super power subsided and another rises too fill the void it happened with japan, and maybe it move orkd ar we obsesses too much? china wages a little bit, and india raises ? >> the americas are rising, i think that united states will do well in the new global environment. >> how so. >> we have one thing that world needs that is consumer demand, world's largest consumer market. we could do very well in a troubled global environment. neil: the default victor? >> we will be, we may b poor but we'll be better relatively speaking. neil: what do you think? >> i hate to be skeptical gordon, i love your optimism. but but i am concerned, i thinkr stock market rallye is faked. the result of federal reserve pumping money it is a great

debate to have i hope you are right but the jobs problem is not getting better, i believe. neil: but our hamburgers and pizzaa. >> condition argupizzaa. neil: can't argue with that. >> relax, not a fcal cliff, new york times said more like a gentle slope. this is america.

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t know where their next meal in the first place! is coming from. and we're not talking about 3rd world countries. we're talking right here in america in our own back yard. so wwrote a tune to shine a little light on the issue. but we want it to be more than a song about hunger, we want it to be a recipe for change. find out how you do your part at childhungerendshere.com hunter: beat box... ♪ here's hope, here's hope, showin' up at your front door, here's hope ♪ neil: note a cliff, more like a curve, not a steep fall, but an afternooning slope, "new york times," unique characterization of the train wreck not to be a train wreck. times manager that you missing a year end legal does not mean we're face new year armageddon,

that congress and or treasury condition move things, that david stoc stock man read and fd to be nonsense call things. the former budget directo going long here. to get to the bottom of fixing this mess down there david good to have you. >> glad to be he. neil: is it a cliff? a hill a bump? >> i think a thundering day of reckoning. >> that is new. we can't fit that in a chiron. >> we've been kicking the can down the road on everything for a decade, every tax cut, tax credit attac, tax stimulus, tax credited will expire on new year's eve this year, a hundred billio on sequester in defense

d nondefense spending will hit.d unemployment insurance wil stop, so when you add that up, 700 billion, nearly 5% of gdp on an annualized basis, i'm not confident that political system has capacity to deal with a world wind this massive. neil: why are the markets so sanguine through this? >> there is no one at home on wal street, these are basically robots trading world clouds emitted by federal reserve or other tral banks in the world, they trade day-to-day hour to hour, based on latest new an in word, -- ne nuance in the world,

this is not a one time events. neil: some are, jamie dimon of j.p. morgan is marshals for it. >> we're forming now a fiscal cliff war room, command center and all this stuff to make sure we understand it, j.p. morgan will survive a fiscal cliff, i think it is terrible policy to allow it to get close. neil: prepare for something bad? >> i think they are prepared. but -- >> what would a brokerage firm or investorment bank have to do to be repaired. >> i'm not sure, but they he a multitrillion dollar balance sheet that will be impacts if there is a sell-off in risk assets of every class. neil: it would be a meltdown. >> if there is a sell-off. neil: thn that couple million setting aside will not cover

round house on a checking account. >> the whole market now being propped up, by the belief that the fed come hell or high water, can keep things on an even keel and stable; if they lose confidence in the fed, that it is keep bond rate down to 1.7, and stock market. you know operating on fumes. if they lose confident there will be a tremendous break down of the system. neil: the fed is keeping this fix alive. right? fin rates sudden -- if interest rates suddenly soar, all bets are off, do you envision that? >> some day it will happen, it is just a question of when. neil: how about december 31. >> i don't know, they will find some way to kick it down the road. neil: i heard a 6 month

extension, including up are rate, let a new president or a reelected one hash this out in the new year. >> that might happen, then that means on june 30th you will be in the same position, you will be in a position regardless who of is elected. neil: they will wait until last minute >> but a president without a mandate to do anything, if romney is elected high said he is not cutting defen, what is he talking about. 700 billion. i'm not touching social security that 800 billion, heart of tte entitlement how do you deal with the problem. neil: maybe, shoa direct. right, bill clinton did that in 1993 with a plan that showed real spending slowing, and deficits curbing. and he did not solve is overnight, i'm not saying he did

it alone but he gave the markets a sense of direction, if they do, that is know much of the monkey off their back? >> i don think so, it years later we had a party like never been a party before. we're nowbjectively 20 trillion in debt, they say number is 16, but there is so much built into the pipeline it will b20 trillion before a new - could get to that june 30th date that you talk about, further more it is being financed at low interest rates, because the fed has its thumb on the scale. we're borrowing today 5 year money for treasury at 70 bas points, that is a rounding err, it cannot last, if you have 20 trillion of debt and interest rates begin it normalize over next 3 yea, there is a hal trillion dollars of spending that we're going to have to cope with, that is not in the numbers today. if you put all of washington

together. you could put all of romney's perspective cabinet together, they could not come up with 0 billion of cuts to deal with a hidden interest that is not even. neil: maybe they can. they are just not sharing it. hang on, david stockton, what he makes of both presidential candidates and how they are addressing this problem, you might be disappointed whether you are a republican or a democrat, but what we would like to see out of them, pronto, more with david stockton going long with one of the greatest financial minds i know, after this.

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heartburn symptoms causedelieve by acireflux disease. osteoporosis-related bone fractures and low magnesium levels have bn seen with nexium. possible side effects include headache, diarrhea, and abdominal pain. her serious stomach conditions may still exist. talk to your doctor about nexium. >> taxes by the way do, not create jobs, raises taxes on enterprised to grow and higher

people, i will not raise taxes on businesses, on will not raise taxes on middle incop people. neil: we lest out there and take that. mitt romney making it clear he has no intention of raising taxes. he will close a number of loophole. he is not going to raise taxes, you don't like that, i think that taxes have to be raised. >> he is right in theory, taxes are bad, they hurt incentives. on the other hand when a government spending trillions and you are running for president and you are unwilling to cut 75% of it as a matter of principle. neil: he was open to curbing the growth in the program. >> no he is not. neil: social security he said we have to do something, at point where we meet the reaper we have

to slow the growth, without cuts benefits benefits. >> is where the myth. is they are talking about a 75% projection where maybe in 2033, you raise retirement age, i'm saying you have to cut it now, january next year, people. neil: y don't buy this -- maybe there is a way to adjust formula so it does not jump as high as fast as rapidly as you fear. >> you have to basically tell av affluent people. you don't get it or you will be cutback. >> that should go well. >> i think we say it will not go well, then answer is, if you are not going to do that or take medicare on right now, not like ryan in 2023 butight now, and

begin to make people pay much higher premiums and cutback on benefits are, you need massive tax increases to pay our bills, if you are unwilling to have massive tax increases, you kick it to next generation. neil: family is -- fundamentally is the tax increase getting in the way of changing more are in -- for something, we never address of under lying problem with spending, we keep spending. >> most of the money is medicare, social security and defense, you have a conservative candidate ho does not want to cut any of them. neil: you may be right, people are open to this he said, i want to protect your medicare, if we make the adjustments now, i raise the retirement age, we save it. i think that argument could be

more received well received than you think. >> yeah, but if no one is tabling that argument, if you are not willing to discuss it out loud with the american public. neil: whatever overtures have you seen from paul ryan is not cutting it? >> no, his plan does not such social security. neil: look how hely i he is vil. what do you like more then? >> i don't know they -- >> what do you hate less. >> i think they are equally bad. >> really? >> on fiscal question we're nearly broke, 1 said 98% of people get no tax increase, the other said 100, and other said no defense increases, obama has done nothing about defense. in his term. obama says no social security cut, romney says i agree, medicare, they make a big fuss

about and they remind people nothing will happen for the next decade. neil: you be stepping this elect out? >> i see there is nothi to be gaining my issue, fiscal issue, the core of what threatening our economy our way of lif -- our future, i can not see we would make headline way. neil: the worries you had more than 3 decades ago, you still have today, you -- i know you have written about it, painted a worrisome picture for ronald reagan back then, did he ignore you then? what? >> well, the thing was that was a clean balance sheet, we had a trillion worth of national debt, that was a small fraction of our gdp, 30 years later we used up the balance sheet. neil: but at the time about he say, dave, stop it. you are depressing me? >> no. he basically said, one deficit was inherited from jimmy carter,

let's blame him, and let's cut fraud, waste and abuse, he was unwilling to take on sial security. neil: he was of view you boom your way outf something like this, that would solve problem, you told him then, not entirely. >> we had a boom yes, but we had a -- >> 25 million jobs. >> you could call it a boom but we headed 2 trillion under tional debt with reagannd 4 bush years. neil: your favorite president. >> eisenhower at the moment, and maybe coolidge, and hooveras not that bad. grover cleveland was not so bad %-neil: he had two different times, we connue with dave on what he would like to see. right now. ...seems like you guys got a little gassed out there. enough already. c'mon guys. xt question. hello! what's your favorite color? what's my favorite color?

yes. purple. what's your favorite animal? sea turtle. what's your bedtime? do you believe in space aliens? ...i love puppies. hash browns or home fries? home fries. do you like my dress? why can't you guys ask good questions like this? [ morgan ] for a chance to interview an nfl player... join visa nfl fan offers and make your season epic.

>> if in doubt, bail them out, the legacy of this president's term, prior president's term, a lot of bailouts for banks and auto companies, a lot startedloo office. you have to go back to the carter years, and chrysler that big bailout that then congressman dave stock man said no to, that made him a lot of friends. >> actually, i was running for reelection in my district, chrysler was biggest employer. and i got highest vote in the next election, 75% of the vote. neil: you stuck to your guns. >> i stuck to my principle, overwhelmingly armors in district and small businessmen, and professionals knew if they got in trouble they were not big enough to make a stink go to

wall street. neil: but thing are sketched. we are from too big to fail to too many to not help it did set a very precedent you worried about. >> that is the speech that i gave, i was unpopular in the michigan delegation, one out of 19 members i voted against, lee was president then, it was a mistake then, not just a misstick for chrysler, we had to bail them out again 25 years, it was a terrible mistake. because how you can have financial market that are disciplined where reckless bets and where mistakes and errors go unpunished. capitalism does not work unless -- >> argument, i agree with you which should concern you.

we had no choice thereas a financial abyss waiting, a freefall on all financial assets that if we didn't stabilize the whole wor. >> i think that is an urgan legend, -- urban legend. take aig, it was a holding company where they had written a cds, it had no capital, holding company was bankrupt but all insurance su subsidize rares. so therefore we could have put aig to bankruptcy, only loss would have been london rogue operation. >> we would have survived, and we'll never know, now we have an environment where it is

routinely done, wall street does not pop unless they get a signal from the fed it will rescue them or the european central bank will do the same over there. what has become of capitalism. >> we don't have capitalism left, capital markets have been destroyed by the central banks, up interest rates are the price of money, the price of debt, when the entire financial system trades off the last move the last statement, the last whispered word of the central banks, it is no longer doing its job of allocating capital, discounting the future, making choices within the financial them, if you don't have that capital markets that are robust and working, you don't have capitalism, this is the fall of this money printing binge we're on today. neil: that is the chicken that is coming home to roost.

>> everye is making the wrong choice, we have massive speculation because fed says you can borrow overnight money. neil: you don't buy that what happens. >> we're i did investorring capital to totally unproductive speculative use. >> markets crash, dollars crash. >> at some point they will. and we' telling washington, you are running a trillion deficit for a fourth year in a row. you can borrow money almost for nothing, why not wait another year or two, who wants to take the fall? who wants to take the politic heat if you can borrow money from 70 basis pois for 5 years, that is what they are doing now. neil: building another bubble? >> a debt bubble. neil: bursthen a depression. >> i don't know, we've never been there before, we never had a tral bank tha -- central bankt printed this much money. neil: you don't think it can

walk back the graveya much longer. >> i don't tnk so. neil: okay, if you have a lead suit, you buy it. david stock man, ronald reagan budget director. makes you think, you know we don't off don't this, we don't go long with a lot of guests, some we make an extension for, mr. stock man is among them, either agree or disagree, he makes you think. >> thank you. neil: we have a lot more after this, including with the spark miles card from capital one, thor's couture gets the most rewards of any small business credit card. your boa! [ garth ] thor's small business earns double miles on ery purchase, every day! ahh, the new fabrics, put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? the spiked heels are working. wait! [ garth ] great businesses deserve the most rewards!

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>> the vice-presidential debate tomorrow in kentucky kentucky, david stockman says paul ryan is not doing enough or cutting enough's. far from the frankenstein image. he is not nearly eight frankenstein or agsi